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Talk:Destruction of the Entwife Gardens
I can´t see how Pukel-Men & Halflings could have fought in that conflict.--Haerangil (talk) 14:30, April 9, 2018 (UTC) Only reason they were included under the "possibly" section was because the Entwives were teaching the Middle Men, Pukel Men, and Halflings how to garden/cultivate the land. So that is why I said possibly. What would you want me to put instead? Just Entwives and Huorns? Moran half valar (talk) 16:50, April 9, 2018 (UTC) : not to the pukelmen but to the easterlings and according to merp the donath, ancestors of the later human-dorwinians. Lenwe has vanished in the first age and in a way i would like to keep his whereabouts a mystery, morwe and nurwe were at cuivienen, i don't know if any of both has survived or followed tareg's regugee trail to the west, i would prefer not to use them, but keep them as characters for the east.if we wish to recycle an old avar charater i would prefer tareg, also at this time lanthir's clan may already have come to rhun and mingled with the avari. I also could imagine that elves from lorien, woodmen of rhovanion and misty mountain orcs were involved in some way in this conflict, along with many trolls and men from the east. We certainly need trolls and sorcery involved to explain the defeat of the entwives...--Haerangil (talk) 14:46, August 19, 2018 (UTC) Well I will take out Lenwe, if it helps with your timeline, but Morwe and Nurwe should stay since you said they were at Cuivenen. But that lake is dissolved into the Sea of Rhun. Where else would they go if not here? Wild Woods in the Far Far East? That seems more uncanonical. So I'll get rid of Lenwe, but I think Morwe and Nurwe should stay. Total War presents Morwe/Nurwe as being at Dorwinion as well. Yes it is a mod, but it is based off the canonical text. Also the Gardens of the Entwives are right there next to them, so they would go where the resources were and mind you that we are talking about S.A. 3428. Lastly, I have always had a dilemma with certain elf characters that are alive but are not talked about in the lore. Do we use them or not? Also, as far as Misty Mountains, I thought about adding the Dragons from the Withered Heath. Perhaps they participated in burning the forests. I could see the dragons participating for Sauron (the ring binds them all etc.)--who knows perhaps this is where Utumokodur dies. Moran half valar (talk) 18:00, August 19, 2018 (UTC) :no dragons working for sauron, net even in the 2nd age.dragons are their own masters.--Haerangil (talk) 23:34, August 19, 2018 (UTC) Then how do you propose they burned the Gardens? Just with torches? I guess I could add the Misty Mountain Orcs like you requested, but I don't think the Northmen would tolerate that large of an army coming down the mountains. So the Northmen would have had to participate as well then. Moran half valar (talk) 00:50, August 20, 2018 (UTC) :question would be: how much of a military force would the woodmen and misty mountain men -the only two human tribes we know of in at the time for that region- have to set up against a laege orc host? Would they effectively be able to stop them marching through their territory? I doubt it. In a way i even like the idea of dragons being involved... but it just doesn't fit the concept of the dragons being asleep and almost forgotten until the dwarves riches begin to tempt them. Anyway they should be their own agents and nor be under the rule of sauron, even if some dragon was involved- however no characters from the utter east!--Haerangil (talk) 12:07, August 20, 2018 (UTC) So you really hate Morwe and Nurwe that much? Are they from the Far East? Like you said though, they had to migrate west like Tareg. That is what you said above. In regards to the Middle Men or Northmen, the ancestors of Beornings, Rohirrim, Dale, and Laketown would all have to be present at this time. So if you figure those numbers, that is quite a lot of men. I think they could fight against the Misty Mountain orcs. Seems plausible to me. Moran half valar (talk) 14:55, August 20, 2018 (UTC)